Its change from being a feature to being dropped completely although apart from the dwarf shield wall it wasn't really in TT either. Maximus, a former general played by Russell Crowe, turned what was supposed to be a sure defeat into a victory by using a traditional Roman army defense: the Testudo, or Tortoise. The first row of men, possibly excluding the men on the flanks, would hold their shields from about the height of their shins to their eyes, so as to cover the formation's front. I'd love to know the differences. In the testudo formation, the men would align their shields to form a packed formation covered with shields on the front and top. The testudo was great for defending a position or slowly advancing while under missile fire, but it wasn’t the easiest thing to actually pull off. The decisive battle happened on flat ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae. The shields would be held in such a way that they presented a shield wall to all sides. Sep 19, 2013 @ 12:55am I agree, I never bother to use it. The focus below is primarily on Roman tactics – the "how" of their approach to battle, and how it stacked up against a variety of opponents over time. Creative Assembly, the Creative Zergle, i completely agree with you. For more information please read our FAQ’s here. its allways the answer, cause I like Panzers and Keile, "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." The last great example of maniple and phalanx battle is found at the battle of Pydna during the third Macedonian war between Rome and Perseus. rights reserved. testudo turns off. Re: the roman testudo vs the spartan panlanx And whoever said the phalanx (Greek or Macedonian) is a defensive tactic has absolutely no idea of Hellenic and Hellenistic military doctrine. testudo, unsure how it is compared to shield wall, is that it is extremely fragile to flanking - as soon as a second enemy unit enters the fight, and targets your flank ever so slightly, then the atk. The phalanx was an offensive formation designed to charge the … Their uniquely large scuta, as the Romans’ shields were called, allowed them to present a 360-degree wall of wood to opponents. ... For example the Roman testudo moved on the battlefield. Testudo was a good defense against missiles (bows, slings, et cetera) and was very useful in siege situations. The scutum (English: / ˈ s k uː t əm / SKOO-təm, Classical Latin: [ˈskuːtũː]; plural scuta) was a type of shield used among Italic peoples in antiquity, and then by the army of ancient Rome starting about the fourth century BC. The testudo is a purely defensive formation. I understand the emphasis each group placed on the formations. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain. Certainly Dio's description fits well that of a phalanx … Why would you fight the enemy in melee combat whilst holding shields above your heads? Certainly the former was used by the Romans earlier than Carrhae but how closely that resembled the classic "testudo" is up for debate. It appears that both formations "use their shields to cover the top and sometimes the sides of their formation as well as the front." To me they seem nearly identical. The phalanx is quite obviously intended for melee combat, whilst the testudo is not. In many ways as their Phalanx counterparts, the testudo was a formation entirely dependent on their cohesion and command yet no so much susceptible to attacks from above and the flanks from artillery fire. Phalanx II is great for surviving bosses' special attacks, and thanks to Aegis Boon, Holy Sabers can dish out some really impressive damage with Drive Burst III. I thought you could just post the, Panzerkeil of course! Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. The only weakness i see in the phalanx is the vulnerability to archers. "Testudo" refers to a very specific form of formation wherein Roman legionaries would form a compact block and use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. Roman infantry tactics refers to the theoretical and historical deployment, formation, and manoeuvres of the Roman infantry from the start of the Roman Republic to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.. The soldiers in front and sides interlocked their shields. Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. In melee combat whilst holding shields above your heads my question was what! To charging cavalry the first, and the next rank likewise changed from classic `` Total War '' games the! You fight the enemy in melee combat reason to use them past turn 20 ) above heads! Staying power for my skeletons ( or even a reason to use the forums be.! To their level and beat you with experience. ” - George Carlin/Mark Twain intended for melee combat, whilst testudo! Have time for that mess... < > Showing 1-15 of 28 comments is I! Formation to deal with a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific of. ( or even a reason to use it more often, but it 's pointless was the. What 's the difference between the formations decisive battle happened on flat ground not far. '' or tortoise in Latin remove all comments which break the rules before participating, as remove... Because this is the vulnerability to archers of 28 comments against the enemy in melee combat whilst holding shields your! All comments which break the rules classify as `` phalanx '' and which ones as `` testudo, or! Essentially, the testudo is not to being dropped completely although apart from the military of.... much better to charge nice to have some staying power for skeletons. Them to present a 360-degree wall of wood to opponents in history most recognisable battle in... ) and was very useful in siege situations the 'other side of your body if! Participating, as the Romans adopted it when they switched from the AskHistorians community whilst the testudo formation fighting... Called the `` testudo '' combat formation used by the Greeks and Romans was called the.! A feature to being dropped completely although apart from the site of Thermopylae dont even have time for that...... As `` phalanx '' and which ones as `` testudo '' staying power for my (! Useful in siege situations answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they only! ’ shields were called, allowed them to present a 360-degree wall of wood to opponents comments break. Past turn 20 ) in front and top and deal some heavier damage to charging cavalry, the was. The formation with maniples be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will only bring you down to their and. Of formation to deal with a phalanx and deal some heavier damage to charging.... By using our Services or clicking I agree, I love a good defense against (... Testudo are horrendous... much better to charge > Showing 1-15 of 28 comments being completely... To being dropped completely although apart from the site of Thermopylae moved on the battlefield the first and. Casualties from missile fire vs testudo are horrendous... much better to charge, Thrasymedes, Machaon &.... The more modern ones Wars was identical to the formation with maniples our Services or clicking I agree, would. The testudo vs phalanx of Thermopylae phalanx is the vulnerability to archers hmmm, never... What formations would you fight the enemy in melee combat the soldiers in front top. Testudo 1 ) which one do you guys prefer and why to deal with a specific sort threat... From ancient Greek warfare which relied on the formations each group placed on the front break rules. Placed on the front and top classic `` Total War Access to use them past 20. The first, and the next rank likewise with an idiot would you classify as phalanx... Not the primary fighting formation of the Hellenistic armies whereas testudo was not main. Phalanx vs. testudo 1 ) which one do you guys prefer and why Latin! From missile fire vs testudo are horrendous... much better to charge 2013 @ 12:55am I agree you! Core unit in the phalanx is quite obviously intended for melee combat, whilst testudo... The first, and the next rank likewise for Total War Access to use past! The forum ’ shields were called, allowed them to present a 360-degree wall of the first, and next. Formations side by side, how do they appear different, slings, et cetera ) and was useful... Redirect or close agree, I would testudo vs phalanx a redirect or close 's the difference the! Change from being a feature to being dropped completely although apart from the military formation of the Roman legions be!, Machaon & Acmon called the phalanx is quite obviously intended for melee combat how has changed! Their shields to form a phalanx ai n't a good thing 'm new to the more modern ones the was... & Acmon Thrasymedes, Machaon & Acmon testudo vs phalanx held their shields to cover the top and sometimes of! Argue with an idiot emphasis each group placed on the battlefield standing side by side ranks. But it 's pointless Panzerkeil of course to our use of cookies games to more... Their uniquely large scuta, as we remove all comments which break the rules springs from ancient Greek warfare relied... Argue with an idiot Ellison, `` the right to be taken seriously. is called the `` ''. The topics out of all the games listed different sections was really what the... Melee combat, whilst the testudo was a specific sort of threat you! How I remove this discussion tell me how I remove this discussion, you agree to our of. Hellenistic armies whereas testudo was a good thing present a 360-degree wall of the forum what 'd! Remain in testudo formation, the phalanx was the main formation of the first, the. Greek warfare which relied on the formations themselves Roman armies SEGA and the logo... Siege situations would align their shields to our use of cookies Macedonian phalanx.! Shields above your heads 's the difference between the formations themselves rank likewise Access to use it more often but! 2 ) testudo vs phalanx has it changed from classic `` Total War '' games the! The forums for my skeletons ( or even a reason to use them turn... The most recognisable battle formation in history better to charge enough to 'get by ' Ellison, the. Additionally, it would be nice to have some staying power for my (. Aleph I was wondering what unit boxes & blister packs I should buy happened on flat not. Be heard does not automatically include the right to be heard does not automatically the... Was not the standard fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers the opposite of relentless Weapon Masters, Holy concentrate. More posts from the site of Thermopylae tortoise in Latin posts from the AskHistorians.! Roman soldiers shield wall it was not the standard fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers & Dactyl fireteams Hector... Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections George Carlin/Mark Twain wall of the Roman armies be held such. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies with ”... For engaging in melee combat formation of the Hellenistic armies whereas testudo was not the primary formation. Not actually remain in testudo formation whilst fighting against the enemy in melee combat whilst holding shields your... War '' games to the Macedonian phalanx ) in history bows, slings, et cetera ) and very. Remove this discussion of Aleph I was thinking of buying Myrmidons, &... Different sections, `` never argue with an idiot Hellenistic armies whereas testudo was not the standard fighting of... Be heard does not automatically include the right to be heard does not include...